Applying to Pre-Med and BSMD Programs

Webinar Transcription

2024-02-01 – Applying to Pre-Med and BS/MD Programs

Hello everyone, my name is Rachel D’Amato and I am your moderator today alongside Lydia Hollon. Welcome to Applying to Pre-Med and BSMD Programs. To orient everyone with our webinar timing, we’re going to start off with a presentation and then answer your questions in a live Q& A. On the sidebar, you can download our slides, um, which should be pop populating right now as current handout, um, as well as you can start submitting your questions in the Q& A tab.

Now, let’s meet our panelists. Hi, everyone. I’m Katie. I am currently a third year medical student at Brown, uh, Warren Alpert Medical School. I also went to Brown for undergrad, as it says here, and was a part of an eight year BSMD program, which I will be speaking a little bit more about, um, in the presentation to come.

Awesome. Hi, everyone. My name is Mattia. I’m originally from North Carolina. Um, I attended Harvard College for undergrad, where I studied applied mathematics, graduating 2020. Then I did a gap year. As part of the Herschel Smith fellowship where I studied epidemiology at Cambridge, and now I’m a third year MD PhD student at Penn.

Awesome. So before we dive into things, we’re going to start off with a quick poll on what grade are you in? So I’m going to start polling now. Um, while we are waiting for those responses, Mattia and Katie, um, in just a quick words, I’m curious to hear, um, what are your favorite Study spots at your respective university.

So Katie, what’s your favorite study spot at Brown? Um, and Mattia, you can answer for either Harvard or UPenn. Um, for me in undergrad, it was definitely like this. It was like a secret spot for me. It was this school, like the building of archeology, which they’re not a lot of archeology majors, so it was like very quiet as a med student.

It’s actually the school, the business school was so funny as that sounds. It’s like massive windows. You overlook the river. It’s like the best possible place. And it’s only for. Like the NBA, I think some sort of Matt like business. major and there’s like 20 of them a year. So I’m like, I’m gonna take this spot.

Um, yeah. Sounds good. Um, in college for me, so Harvard has 12 residential, um, houses. And so each one has kind of their own library. Um, so I would go there sometimes when I would really need to study for an exam the next day or write essays. But usually I would just study in the dining hall, usually after dinner.

All the dining halls would just be open for people to study and to chat. So to go there. And then in med school, I definitely just, I’m a coffee shop girl. Like I love having some little noise in the background. So that’s where I usually study. Awesome. Well, thank you both. I’m going to go ahead and close the poll now.

It is looking like we have, um, primarily, uh, folks. in 9th and 10th grade with 30 percent 9th graders, 35 percent 10th graders. We’re seeing 27 percent 11th graders, um, 3 percent 12th graders, um, and 2 percent 8th graders and other. So, it’s a really good mix of folks today. You’re here at the perfect time and I’m really excited for you to hear from Katie and Mattia.

So, I’ll pass it on over to you for the presentation. Perfect. I’ll get us started. So we’ll start with a little bit about what my personal college admissions process was like, so you guys get a little bit of background on me. Um, I am from Los Angeles, California, and I went to a public high school, um, in high school.

And so I applied to a number of schools, including state schools at the UCs. I think I was certainly very blessed to be in state to an institution like the UC, which is like a, you know, a great, great public institution. Um, so I was very lucky to have that, um, Broadly, it’s like safety target at reach schools.

Um, all of the all across all sort of cheers. Um, I also applied to a number of Ivy leagues and other top charity schools as well as a couple of BSMD programs. Um a BSMD program is for quick explanation is essentially what it sounds like It’s a bachelor of science and then a medical degree kind of combined.

There are different lengths of programs There are some programs that are short at six years. Um, UMKC is one that comes to mind as as you know really famously a six year program, which means two years of undergrad and then four years of med school, all the way up to a program like mine, the one that I attended, which is an eight year total program, which is a typical length, um, of, of the bachelor and medical school training.

So I did four years of undergrad at Brown and then four years of med school. Also at Brown, and I’m currently in my third year. Um, so the program at Brown is called the Program in Liberal Medical Education, abbreviated PLEME, so you’ll hear me refer to it as PLEME for today. Um, and I applied regular decision, actually.

Um, another thing about, like, kind of my picking process, I was really applying to a lot of schools in the east coast, but didn’t actually get the chance to visit any of them. My mom sort of and I made a deal, um, where if I got into a good number of colleges, we could fly out and go visit them and see what was the right fit for me.

And that ended up being really important because I’ve been in Providence, Rhode Island, which is where Brown is for seven years now. And it was really important to me that I liked the surroundings, I liked the people. the city and make, like, making sure that this was a place that I could be in for, for eight years.

Um, I did get into a good number of schools, um, including some of my dream schools at the time were, was Yale. Um, I also got into a couple of other Ivy League schools, um, like Princeton and Cornell and Penn, and also didn’t get into some. I always tell my students that I’m helping with applications that I don’t, I did not get into every single school.

I didn’t get into my, um, Um, early action school, actually. So for those of you out there who are hearing back or, um, you know, have heard back about early action, just want to put it out there, right? Like I got into a number of great schools and, you know, got into a really great program and didn’t get into my early school, um, which was Stanford.

And so I want to put out positivity into the world for that. Um, and for each of these schools that I applied to, I really spent a lot of time making sure that my application was fitted for that school and that school’s Uh, personality and what they seemed like they were looking for. So it wasn’t just sort of like I sent out the same application that I sent to the UCs to every single school on top of that.

Um, I really made sure every application had elements that made sense for that school. How did I choose my major? Um, so I majored in science, technology, and society, which is just a very long winded way of saying I majored in something interdisciplinary. It’s sort of like a newer major, sort of like American studies.

Um, science, STS is what it’s called. I’m going to abbreviate it because it’s just too much of a handful. Um, it sounds like I did computer science or something. I, I didn’t. It’s just basically you have to do some science and you have to do some sort of other discipline that, um, kind of focuses on society, if that makes sense.

So for me, my science, basis was biology and my like discipline if that makes sense was anthropology that was kind of like the the basis and the crux of all of the classes that I took as far as methodology and how I approach things and my particular focus was in mental health because that ended up being what was interesting to me and I really experienced that.

Um, I really wanted to explore that and had a lot of freedom to explore that at Brown because of the way that Brown’s curriculum is set up in terms of, like, I didn’t just come in like freshman year. I was like, yes, this is what I want to do. I took a bunch of different classes and ended up finding that this discipline was right for me and really meshed with what I enjoyed reading as far as academic literature.

And then ended up figuring out that mental illness narratives were something that was really interesting to me, something that I wanted to put my attention on. Um, And for a brief summary of what that means, like I get asked that a lot, medical anthropology is essentially the study of, um, like different, the way different cultures approach disease and approach healing, as well as the ways in which we tell stories about our own illnesses.

Um, so for example, a good example of these is how we describe fighting cancer, or kind of use different war terminology to describe someone who has cancer. is, you know, battling cancer or is a cancer survivor. Um, I applied as a cognitive science major. I’ll talk a little bit more about that when I talk about my application in terms of why.

Um, other things I also considered majoring in include English, literary arts, and health and human biology, which is a very common major. That was, I think, the most common major actually for pre meds at Brown. Please remember, and I’m going to emphasize this kind of throughout the presentation, you do not need to apply with a biology related major to be pre med.

In fact, the major that you apply to, as you can tell from what I did, is not at all the major that you have to end up in. Um, most of the schools, uh, actually don’t have you declare a major until the end of your sophomore year. I think there’s a stat out there or something that’s like 30 percent of people who are pre med, Actually end up staying in pre med, which means the rest of them, um, find something else they loved.

So kind of just like really quick things that I wanted to emphasize as far as major. It doesn’t have to be biology and you can switch it up, which means that you want to think about it with some strategy in mind in terms of what major you were pre med.

Um, extracurricular activities I participated in. These are some of the, I think, a little bit more pre med y ones that I wanted to emphasize. We’ll talk a little bit more about research and volunteering later on because I get asked that a lot as well. Um, But science Olympiad was one that I was a part of.

And this is for those of you who might be familiar. Um, it’s a school based competition, which you form teams of typically like two or three people. Um, and then an overall team that kind of comes together and does different events together. And within each of these events, there’s typically some sort of tests that you have to do with that be identifying like rocks, or it can be something like Mixing together chemicals and doing different tests to figure what chemical it is or something like building so like building a Mechanism such that when you drop an egg It will not break the other one the other major extra clip that I did that I actually talked about my personal statement was Faulty mine, and this was a teen suicide hotline that was run by teens for teens And I was very lucky that this happened to be something that a program that existed near me in Los Angeles to be totally honest I went like Super out of my way to research and find this particular extracurricular and As someone who is currently now applying into child psychiatry, clearly it’s something that really influenced me and kind of brought me on a path.

Now, nine, 10, 10 years later, has really influenced like what I want to do with my life. Um, that’s a huge, that’s a, that was a huge thing for me. And also then I really talked about as far as, um, my interest in medicine. And final thing, um, I was the editor in chief of my school literary magazine. So clearly, or maybe it’s not clear, but I had a lot of interest in English literary arts, humanities, humanities.

sort of all through high school and college. And that was something that shown shown through my application. Um, wasn’t all science, everyone.

Fantastic. Well, thanks so much, Katie. So far, we’re going to take a quick pause before we move on to hearing from Mattia to ask another poll. So I’m going to go ahead and start. polling. Curious to hear where you’re at in the application process. Um, I know there’s a vast majority of folks in different, uh, grades here.

So feel free to answer based on how feels best to you. So while we are waiting, um, I am curious, uh, Katie, you know, before we get onto, you know, hearing a little more about Matias background, what drew you to medicine? Um, and kind of what, what path are you looking to take, um, after medical school? Yeah, that’s a great question.

Um, so I applied into this medical program out of high school. So some inkling of me early on was like, this is something that’s for me. I think something I’ve been talking a lot about actually with one of the mentors that I have is that people who are interested in medicine tend to be really interested in doing.

Um, I was never someone who, Super enjoyed being in the lab doing research. Um, and maybe this is something that you can talk about more as well. Um, as someone who’s in a PhD program, but I never really loved research. I didn’t feel like I had like that burning question that I needed answered. It was really more for me about that one to one communication.

When I was working on the hotline, I was like, oh, this is kind of where I get my personal satisfaction in my day. Um, was talking to people and kind of getting that like immediate feedback, if that makes sense. And, and that’s sort of how I ended up in medicine. Um, I will be applying to child psychiatry at the end of this year.

Well, actually I’ll be applying to adult psychiatry. And then with a future fellowship in child psychiatry, and, um, that’s sort of my path, I guess, if that makes sense. Um, and there’s a potential for me to also do pediatrics on top of that and do a triple board. So those are all the things that I’m thinking about that are busy in my brain.

Wow, that’s fantastic. I’m excited to, uh, continue to hear more about kind of, uh, the path that’s ahead. Got you to this point. Um, awesome. I’m gonna go ahead and close our poll now. Um, we are seeing predominantly folks Uh, literally, I think the numbers do quick math like 92 percent of the people in the room Um haven’t even started yet or are researching schools.

So very early on in their processes Um again, it’s it’s always a great time to get started on the college admissions process, especially when you’re targeting Competitive programs like pre med and BSMD and um, eventually down the line MD PhD program. So I’ll go ahead and pass it over now to Matthea.

Awesome. Thanks. Um, so a little bit about my college admissions process. So, or let me go back a little bit. So, um, similar to Katie, I also went to a public school as well. My school was a magnet school and then so it had AP and also had IV coursework as well. So I did AP classes and I did also did the IV diploma as well.

Um, and so, um, I didn’t really think about college until around junior year fall, junior fall, uh, fall of my junior year, excuse me, um, and then that’s when I was starting to think about like what my interests are, potentially where would I want to be geographically, um, and what I would want to study in college.

Um, and so junior spring, I see that’s kind of like a common time in which people start doing like their college tours or like really, in Katie’s case, kind of sitting down and thinking about like, sort of what schools I’m interested in applying to. So junior spring break, I, um, kind of did an east coast college tour.

It was much closer to me to travel to the east coast than it was for community. Um, so we just did kind of like seven schools in seven days. Um, and so kind of going before the trip, I was interested in Yale. I thought like kind of the mix of like my high school internship. As well as being pre med and going to medical school down the line, I thought Yale was a great mix for me.

So going into college tour, I was like, Oh, I’m going to apply Yale early. And then halfway through the college tour, um, we, we stopped at Cambridge, Massachusetts, and we applied, uh, we toured Harvard and like, I fell in love with the campus. Like I definitely was not expecting for that to happen. Um, and so from there I realized, Oh, actually I want to pivot and apply to Harvard Early Action.

Um, and so between me going to Harvard in March, uh, of my junior year to the early action, um, sort of application in the fall, I kind of was catering, um, my essays and then extracurriculars how I was crafting my narrative towards Harvard. Um, and so also kind of taking a step back for that as well. So I, um, also had a list of like safety reach and safety reach schools as well.

Um, but luckily for me in my college admissions process, um, was I felt like very smooth. So I got into Harvard early action. And from there, I still also wanted to apply to a couple other schools to see if I could potentially, um, some get some qualified for some scholarships as well. And so I also applied into Yale, Columbia and Duke regular decision and I got into those schools as well.

So felt very blessed to be in that situation. Um, but the main kind of takeaway I want to take from my experience is just whatever school that you decide to apply to early action or early decision, definitely make sure that your narrative for why you want to go there. to that school fits the school’s vision for what they’re looking for in students.

Um, I think it’ll be really helpful to kind of like, make your case for why you want to go to that particular school as well.

So how do I choose my major? So again, going back to what I said before, my school had AP coursework and also I did the IB diploma as well. And from when I sort of came to my public school, um, in 9th grade, I knew, um, that I kind of had an interest in math, so I tried to make sure that I optimized all the math classes that were offered there.

Which I did, and then my school also had a relationship with NC State, where you can have some high schoolers go and take some of the coursework there. So that’s what I did my junior year. Um, and so I knew it just kind of makes sense to apply into applied mathematics, um, with a sub focus in mathematical biology.

Um, So I, I think I’m kind of one of the few that did a non traditional pre med major, applied into a non traditional pre med major, and actually stuck it out for the four years and graduated in applied math. And then I also took some psychology courses while I was at Harvard and ended up doing a secondary.

Also for context, so a lot of schools say major, minor, Harvard is very extra until we talk about concentration and secondary. So I concentrated in applied math and then I And I did secondary in psychology. Um, in terms of the college admission process, though, I also considered biomedical engineering, sociology, and French as well, depending on the schools.

Some schools will allow you to do a double major or joint concentration. Harvard’s case, depending on what the, um, what the, um, subject matter is. But in my case with applied math, you can you can’t do a joint concentration. So you can only focus on applied math because you can do a focus within the concentration.

It’s a very broad, um. sort of concentration within the School of Engineering and Applied Sciences. And people at Harvard oftentimes joke that that’s that, um, that concentration is kind of the one for people who don’t really know what they’re interested in, but they’re just interested in general math and science.

So that’s what we did for that. That’s what I did for that. Um, and I would say the biggest advice when choosing a major for the college application process is apply for a major that you’re passionate about. But that also makes sense with your application and what you’ve pursued in high school. So it’s like if you in high school, you’re interested in music and theater and dance, um, and you also pursue some of those coursework and did those extracurriculars.

Um, but you haven’t, like you took no STEM classes or maybe the bare minimum to graduate high school. I think it’d be a pretty hard sell to tell school, let’s say at MIT that you want to study biomedical engineering, um, versus like another school you could say, Oh, I wanted a major in sociology or theater or French.

Or something like that. So I think it also is important like to kind of have your passions and have them Be stated on your application, but also kind of be realistic with what you’ve pursued and like kitty said before it’s like you can Once you get in you can always depending on the school You can always change your major like you’re not married to whatever you applied into so I would say My biggest advice for that.

Um, and so, in terms of the extracurriculars, um, I participated in just kind of staying up in the college admissions process. So, kind of, again, going back to junior year and thinking about colleges, I wanted to make sure that I kind of had a well rounded application. So, that meant some more academic extracurriculars, but then also volunteering, shadowing, um, and then also kind of having a sport and then kind of like having sort of.

an instrument, being involved in an instrument. So I’ve been playing piano since I was five years old, and I also played clarinet in my high school band. So those were things that I really highlighted in my application. In addition to being on the varsity golf and on the soccer team as well, I participated in Quiz Bowl.

I had been volunteering at my homeless shelter since eighth grade, so that’s something I also really highlighted as well, and it kind of tied in into why I was sort of interested in medicine as well. And then I also was in involved in fellowship with Christian athletes as well as the president my senior year.

So those are a couple of the things that I was involved in in high school. Again, kind of focusing and making sure that I had it. I felt like I had an application that was kind of tailored to what I felt like the schools were interested, um, that the schools I was applying to were interested in looking for.

In their students. So

fantastic. Thanks so much, Mattia. So that is the end of our presentation part of tonight’s webinar. I hope you found this info super helpful. And just remember, you can download our slides from the link in the handouts tab. So now we’re going to move on to the live Q and a portion of tonight’s webinar. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to read through the questions that you submit in the Q and a tab.

Paste them in the public chat so that you can see and then read them out loud for our panelists to give an answer. Um, as a heads up, if you are having a hard time, um, submitting questions, just make sure you join the webinar through the link in your email. Um, rather than directly from the webinar, um, website.

landing page where you registered. Um, I also ask we have a lot of folks in the room tonight. Um, there’s a really large chance that we might not get to your question. We’re trying, going to try to get to as many questions as possible. So I just ask that you please, um, avoid liking your own questions. It messes up kind of the order, um, as well as, um, you know, just be patient with us as we go through the question process.

So I’m going to pull up our first question. Um, and this is for you, Katie, what are the advantages of pursuing a BSMD program over the traditional premed route? Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, so a couple of things, I had a conditional acceptance into medical school. And so, um, that is, And you can also comment on this too if you want to, but it’s, it was, it’s pretty big.

I never took the MCAT and because of, and I never took the MCAT, which is one huge hurdle. I also never applied to other medical schools. So that means I didn’t spend, you know, not only the, the stress, but also like the application fees and, and the getting everything together, writing the essays, like everything you’re going through now for college, you do again for med school.

And I sort of skipped that. stuff, which is kind of a nice hack. Um, and also because of the way my program specifically is set up, and this is Brown specific, other BSMD programs, um, like the ones at Wash U and Northwestern are very, very different, but at Brown specifically, we do not, we did not have a GPA minimum.

We did not have an MCAT requirement, and we only had a student of required coursework. So I never took, for example, organic chemistry two, which if you talk to any pre med student, you’ll hear grown typically, maybe some of those or go, but, um, like a grown when you talk about that class, um, I never took any physics or any math because I tested out of them or like I use my APs and tested out of those.

And so I could tell a lot on the required coursework and that’s how I ended up doing, um, such like, Really a wide variety of really interesting classes that um, I know like To many people, it’s like, okay, so like you didn’t take that pre med classes. Like how are you gonna do well in med school? Um be honest first of all med school not a lot of organic chemistry not really totally connected Um all the stuff that i’m learning and practicing now not super connected And you have to know the organic chemistry to get into med school essentially Um what it what it does come like where it does Become relevant that was like I took a history of psychiatry class for example I took a class about medicine and racism And the ways in which race is still pervasive in terms of the different systems of medical The medical systems and like how it influences health care and insurance plans Um, I took a lot of classes on I took one class on history of prisons and now I actually work a lot in forensics Um because I had that background I sort of had like a little bit of like that Oh, I know what this is about.

I know the system. I know the history behind it Now listen I actually parlays and think into a very interesting residency application as I move look forward to residency. Um, I kind of got off topic. So the anyways, I was able to do all of these things because I was a part of the program. Now, a couple of downsides.

I do want to mention because I think it’s always important to pros and cons. If you go to a shortened program. Your undergrad experience will be condensed and therefore will be harder. You have to do a lot more STEM classes at these programs typically and condense them. So you might not have your summer break off or your winter break off.

You might be taking classes. You might not also get the full like undergrad experience of taking all these different elective classes and exploring all these disciplines, which for me, uh, would be a huge hit. That’s something that clearly I really, really enjoyed. Um, and last thing I would say. say is that because of the conditional acceptance to Brown, I could not apply to other medical schools without losing my spot at Brown.

Now for me, that was not an issue because I was like, Thank you. I don’t have to apply to other medical schools. Um, but that might be something that for some of you might be something that you’re like, I don’t want to limit myself to this Um, so let me think about fantastic. Thanks katie Um, so matia, can you speak a little bit more to the difference between pre med and a medical related major?

Um, does pre med just add more courses to the schedule? Can you talk a little bit about that as well as touch on kind of what you mentioned about? Um, you know, Kind of going the untraditional route as well. Yeah, definitely. So I would say for college, so again, this is, um, this is school specific, but in general, um, I feel like doing more of a pre med kind of major, like biology and society, I’m throwing out like this Cornell specific one.

Um, there tends to be a little bit more overlap between the requirements that you need to take the MCAT and applying to medical school and the requirements that you need to graduate from college. And so one of the benefits of doing a more kind of quote unquote pre med traditional major is that you kind of have less requirements that you need to do to graduate and apply to medical school.

So more opportunities to take some of these other courses that may interest you like Katie was talking about. One of the. Um, benefits of doing kind of a non traditional, um, major is you kind of get that from the get go. Like a majority of your courses are non pre med related, so non biology, chemistry, physics, or go, and so you’re kind of focusing on more of the interests that you have in mind.

So in my case, um, I would say like 60 coursework that I was taking at Harvard was related to applied math concentration. Um, so I was able to kind of interact with most people. People I wouldn’t usually interact with if I was just taking pre med courses. And so I, I found that really beneficial for me because I think it challenged and pushed my thinking in a particular class, not just in classwork, but also thinking about life in general.

So I thought that was great. The only downside to taking a non pre med major is that, or traditional pre med major, is that You’ll be taking more coursework, right? Because you need to take the coursework you need to do to graduate your major, but then also you have to take the coursework for taking the MCAT and applying to medical school.

So I’m going to be honest, like I was working a lot in college, um, taking, um, my math classes, but then when I wasn’t taking my math classes, I was having to do traditional pre med classes. So there was a couple of semesters I was taking five courses. Um, and for context, Harvard usually take four courses a semester.

But two of them were hard math classes, two of them were pre med classes, and one was like a psychology course. So to say it was stressful at times is an understatement, but again, I, you weigh the pros and cons when you go to college and you study, um, you decide to study a particular major. I, you know, I thought it was really beneficial for me for some of the things I had discussed earlier about interacting with people I usually wouldn’t have interacted with, um, or just doing pre med courses.

So I hope that kind of answers that question. Um, Um, and I wanna shout out you also, ’cause Atma bio is, which is your major. We have it at Brown too, is not an easy major. Everyone, um, mo a lot of pre-meds don’t necessarily do Atma bio or biomedical engineering ’cause it’s so hard to do all that. Yeah. Yeah.

so shout out to you. Uh, thank you. Thank, sorry. I want to add one more thing though. Something to also consider though is if you do a non. Traditional pre med major. I will say that depending on how difficult the major is, keep in mind that you need to also kind of do really well in college to get accepted to really top medical school.

Katie was lucky in the sense that she didn’t have any GPA or MCAT requirements, but if you decide not to do the BSMD route, just know that like, For a lot of your friends who decide to do a traditional pre med major, it might be easier to kind of like, you know, graduate college with a 3. 9, 3. 95, but if you’re doing, decide to do biomedical engineering, and let’s say math and physics is your jam, but let’s say some of the other engineering, applied engineering courses are not, keep in mind that like, you know, Yeah, some medical schools might be okay with you having a slightly lower GPA, but just know that you’re competing against people who could come in with a 4.

0 because they just did all the required pre med courses and then maybe did some of the easier, uh, had time for easier courses that can sort of increase their GPA. So keep that in mind. Yeah. Really great points, um, from you both. And I did want to call out for the folks in the room who are interested in medicine, but also like the humanities.

I have a, uh, a friend who studied theater, um, in undergrad and, you know, did pre med on the side. And so as long as you ensure that you get your pre med prerequisites completed, and again, like Matthea was speaking to making sure that you keep your GPA up, um, it really sets you up for it. And any major can set you up for success.

for medical school as long as you make sure you get your prerequisites completed as well. They’re now a doctor. So, um, yeah. Uh, so we’re getting in tons of questions. Next question. Um, I did see a really interesting question and, um, I’ll pass this to either of you. Um, you know, as we all know, uh, The route in medicine can be a very costly one.

Um, and so do either of you have any recommendations advised for scholarships, both on the undergrad and, uh, you know, down the line when you’re exploring medical degrees? Yeah. Um, so I’ll start by saying for those of you who are interested, kind of in like the whole eight year trajectory, medical school specifically, like those four years where you’re getting your MD.

Is not a great time to get loans. You’re going to have a much higher interest rate. Um, If I put it very bluntly, it’ll just be and you will not be able to really get As great financial aid as you might be able to get an undergrad. Um, typically undergrad, uh, The federal government is more forgiving the interest rates are lower and there’s ways in which you can delay having to pay it off Um, if you if you continue to stay in higher education And so for those of you out there who are thinking about like Loans and financial aid and all that really heavy stuff.

Something I would, um, advise is like when you’re applying to schools, keep a huge eye out for schools that offer, um, shoot, what is it called? Um, it’s called like, no loan policy basically is what I mean. They basically match your need and they will provide all of that. So I think Harvard and Brown and I’m just A lot of these top tier schools all fall into that category of whatever demonstrated need uh, you have on the FAFSA, they will actually meet you at that and you won’t take out any loans.

So something to keep an eye out for, um, scholarships are definitely a huge plus if you can. And I know there actually are some medical school scholarships if you’re interested in particular specialties, especially if you are from underserved communities, these are great things to look out for. Um, and some of them actually have sizable amounts of scholarship money that come with it.

Um, I don’t know if you wanted to add anything on, but, oh, the other thing that you were, I remember you were saying, Tia, was like the, when you, you got into a school early action, but you still applied to a couple other schools after, that was also a strategy I thought about, where you applied to a number of schools, and you kind of applied to their financial aid packages, and you actually do get different packages from different schools, but let’s say I, like, I got a great package from Princeton, didn’t get that great of a package from Brown, um, I can kind of use that.

That to leverage a little bit in terms of increasing my financial aid package at Brown. Yeah, I would say, I mean, you said perfectly, I don’t have really too much to add, um, to that. I would say, yeah, um, definitely after you get your acceptances for college, definitely kind of reach out to the financial aid office and see what you can do to try and, um, get as Package you can.

Um, and then also kind of moving forward a little bit to medical school. So one of the great things about doing an MDPHD is that, um, it is a funded program, so I don’t pay for tuition and I get a stipend, um, through the NIH. So that’s like one of the pros of doing an mdph, which a lot of people are probably like, oh my gosh, that’s amazing.

Let me do an mdph. Keep in mind though. What you sort of make up for in not having to pay like you. It is a time commitment, right? Like med school goes straight through. It’s just four years.

I believe we may have lost mat. Oh. Oh. You are going. Hey Mattia. Um, I think we’re having a little bit of technical difficulty.

Yeah. All right, Katie. I’m going to ask my next question and I can quickly summarize what I think she was saying a lot of MD PhD programs at the end of your second year, you actually go off and do the years of your PhD, if that makes sense. So, um, a lot of the MD PhD students will do like their, their 5 years or whatever, and then come back for their 3rd year clinical.

Got it. Um, can everybody confirm that you can see me? I’m seeing some Internet issues on my end. I’m also seeing that. I wonder if it’s not an internet issue, but it’s like, uh, okay. Yeah. So as long as we can still see me and see each other, then we are good. I’ll keep asking questions. Okay. Um, perfect. So I, Katie, if you want to start this up, there’s was a really interesting question about, um, how to find volunteer, um, Opportunities.

Um, as a high school student, how to find volunteer, how to find research, um, opportunities. Um, I know you mentioned, uh, you worked on the, I think it was teen life, uh, if I remember correctly. Uh, and so just a little more info about how, how to kind of find and source those opportunities. Yeah. Um, so this is a hard part of being in high school and I’m sorry, everyone.

I think it’s, it’s definitely one of those things where you have to be very proactive about it. You want to be on top of it from the beginning, looking at, you know, like we are all from different sort of areas, like whether you’re from a big city, a suburb or from a rural area, you have different levels of opportunity made available to you and admissions officers are still Certainly aware that admissions officers are actually assigned to your region specifically, so they’re familiar with the like the locale of where you’re coming from.

So with that in mind, like, I want to put out there, like, for those of you who are really anxious about that, it’s not a lot of things available in your area. That’s okay. Like, there are other things that are that count as extracurriculars, whether it be volunteering at the local library, or maybe there’s some really unique things that you that you can do as part of your community, like you.

Volunteer at the local ranch or I don’t know like with and ride horses Like that’s a cool thing that I would not have done in Los Angeles, um being from the big city Um in terms of how to look things up, I would say start start basic You know If you want to start by looking up hospital volunteer programs look for like structured programs and that includes research as well Um in my sophomore year And my junior year I did a structured research program my junior year the one it was at ucla and it was actually engineering Um, and these structured programs are really nice because they essentially said hey, here’s a six week summer program We are going to assign you to a lab You are going to have a professor who is willing to work with you And at the end of this program you will have you will be expected to present a scientific poster And that was perfect in the sense that um the six year the six week The six week or the eight week is a perfect time period and they make that connection for you Now that’s not always possible and those programs might not be always available in your area So some other things that you can do which I’ve practiced with students before is like dry emailing local professors at if there’s like local universities or colleges in your area Um, you won’t get a lot of responses like don’t get discouraged It’s probably like one in ten people will respond and that one person’s probably gonna say no we don’t take high schoolers um, but Certainly email around like keep trying.

Um, the other thing with the teen line, for example, this, um, the suicide hotline was a very specific, like very unique opportunity. Um, one thing I would say is like, keep your ear to the ground. Like what are people doing in your high school who were like in years above you, right? Like what are the opportunities that they found that you might be able to explore?

Um, those, that’s like one way to find the interesting activities that are in your area that other people might not know about. Um, It also, I did a lot of Googling. Like if I, if you could see my website bookmarks from high school, I had so many bookmarks or just like different summer programs that I was meeting to apply to some that I didn’t meet the year requirement for yet.

Like if I was a freshman, um, that I would apply to later. And just like a lot of, um, honestly, like looking at different lists of things and going through and seeing if there’s anything that would like, like stuck out in terms of interest. Um, Definitely do your best to follow your passion. Like, I, I’m gonna, I know that sounds really, really basic, but this, um, the suicide hotline is something that I really, like, I looked up, I think, various different forms of saying, like, crisis line or, like, suicide hotline and, like, like, and that’s how I ended up stumbling upon these opportunities, um, and hopefully gives you all a place to start.

Like, if you’re really interested in politics, like, reach out to local, like, assembly members, like, hey, can I volunteer for you? Can I canvas for you? Like, these are all, like, start at the very bottom and. Right. Make your way up. Thanks so much, Katie. So, Mattia, before we lost you a little bit at the end of your last response, are you able to talk a little bit again about like MD PhD programs, the financial benefits, as well as just a little more about what an MD PhD program is?

Yeah, yeah. Um, sorry about that. I had to check my Wi Fi again, but great. So, thinking about MD versus MD PhD programs. So, again, so MD programs, their goal is to train Physicians and the PhDs. Their role is to train physician scientists, right? So interested in seeing patients or being a surgeon, physicians or surgeons, and then also conducting research as well.

So, what MD PhD programs versus MD programs look for in an applicant? Uh, it’s slightly different, right? So, MD PhD. You’re getting a PhD, so they want to make sure that you have sufficient research experience. You understand kind of potentially what your project that you would want to, um, to work on who, like, potential PIs that you would want to work with, and then also research experience.

So, like, do you have publications? Have you gone to conferences? Um, what are your previous PIs saying about you in terms of your research skills and your sort of your acumen and then your interest to kind of want to learn and grow more? Right? Because an MD, their program is teaching you how to think.

like a physician, right? Whereas PhD is teaching how to think like a scientist. So in a lot of ways, a lot of the characteristics that make a good med students, um, PhD students are similar, but again, they’re kind of distinct. Um, so I would say again, before I got cut off, so benefit of doing MD PhD is you don’t pay for tuition, medical school tuition, and you also get a stipend as well, which is great.

Awesome. But then also at the same time, you are spending an extra three to five years, depending on how long your PhD takes in extra training, right? So if you kind of, in the long term, think about the cost of doing MD PhD, you kind of lose a little bit of money in the long term, right? Because that’s potentially three to five years that you could be earning money as an attending down the line that you’re spending extra time in school.

So also keep that in mind, too, because I think a lot of people think, oh, empty PhD. You don’t have to pay. However, much medical tuition is plus cost of living every year in the long run, you you will be, um. sort of losing money. Thanks so much, Mattia. And I will say for those who don’t know what the P. I.

Acronym is, it’s, uh, I think primary investigator idea. So it’s referring to the lead of a study. So, um, you know, no worries. Um, and so if if you are interested in research, um, those air kind of the folks that you would kind of cold call and reach out to, um, or their team and kind of get to do studies underneath their head.

Um, so, uh, yeah, thank you so much, Mattia. So, uh, Katie, a question I saw here that I have not seen before, um, that I thought was super interesting, um, was when you were applying to Brown, did you, um, do the supplemental video component? Um, and if so, how do you think, do you think it’s a beneficial portion of the application for those who are interested in brown?

I I do get this question sometimes when I talk about brown and I want to say unfortunately I applied long enough ago, which is not long ago, but I applied in 2017 2017, I think, when this video thing wasn’t a thing. It actually became a thing, I think, the year after I applied. That being said, um, it is meant to replace the alumni interview, which is what I did do, and my alumni interview was I beneficial to my application.

I actually interviewed I just got really lucky to interview with someone who was actually Like a graduate of the pleading program and was literally a doctor, um at the la county hospital So the video portion I think is a really great opportunity for you to showcase some parts of your personality who you are And also to I think show some genuineness behind your application Admissions officers like I like to think of it From the application perspective think of admissions officers as your advocates They essentially are reading your application And if they love you, they’re going on to like the greater committee and basically fighting for you Think of them as like you want them to feel for you and fight for you and the more you can make those connections um The stronger your application is I think put very simply and so if you can make that connection to the admissions officer through a video that That that’s a huge thing that can be beneficial for application.

Thank you. So we’re going to take the quickest pause in the Q and a, um, let our presenters take a drink of water if they need to for me to talk a little bit more about, um, college advisor and what we offer here. Um, so, uh, Both Mattia, uh, Katie and Lydia have all been or are currently advisors here at collegeadvisor.

com. Um, we have a team of over 300 admissions experts and former admissions officers, um, who are on hand to help families navigate the college admissions process, especially, um, the comm The competitive admissions process that is, um, applying as a pre med interested individual. So I wanted to share a little like awesome stats with you all so far.

So we have been getting in our 2023, our class of 2024. Their acceptances, their early acceptances. So far, we have have had already over 250 top 50 acceptances with a 49. 5 percent acceptance rate, which is just out of this world. And on the Ivy League side, we’ve had our over 21 Ivy acceptances with a 25 percent acceptance rate, which compared to the single digits.

Um, you know, working with college advisor, it does put you at a much better advantage. So we are able to help high school students, transfer students. We help you through every part of the admissions process. So feel free to go ahead and scan the QR code on the screen where you can sign up for a free 45 to 60 minute admissions strategy session with a specialist on our team.

So during this meeting, they’ll go over your current extracurricular list. an application strategy, discuss how they align with your college list, as well as outline the tools you need to stand out in a competitive admissions world. They’ll also talk a little bit more about our packages, um, and you can even get a little bit of a sense of the type of advisors you might be paired with.

So this QR code is going to stay up through the rest of the webinar. Um, again, this is a really great opportunity to ask really specific questions, as well as get a better sense about how, um, a company like collegeadvisor. com can help increase your admissions odds. So back to Q& A now. Um, The next question that I wanted to ask, um, and this is for both Mattia and Katie, in what ways do you feel like you stood out in your applications?

And I think this could be a really great opportunity. A lot of folks were asking, like, what clubs did you take? What internships? So a little bit more about kind of your application profile when you all were applying to these top programs. Yeah. Um, I think this is an important question because I think this is something that all of you will, you know, whether it’s in three years or in one year, we’ll be really thinking about in terms of how to stand out.

I would say it’s the way my application came together, if that makes sense, like the cohesiveness of it for me. So it kind of to go through it. I’ll start with the fact that as you can probably tell already, my extracurriculars kind of indicated this strong interest in biology. And in science with the shadowing and the research and the little bit of medicine It like involved in there and then also a pretty strong interest in the humanities Um, so whether that be I think that was at the time it was like mostly writing and debate and that sort of stuff And so my application Came together in the sense that my personal statement was about my time at teen line and it was about um, you know, it displayed I think qualities that medical medical schools want to see as far as like being calm under pressure being able to Handle crisis being able to talk to People, but my essay ultimately was about reading intention behind words and how important that is on a suicide hotline, right?

Where people are talking about very, very personal, um, sometimes like very traumatizing things that happened to them. And at the same time, also might, Like figuratively and literally be standing on a ledge and kind of talking them down from that ledge. Um, and so these were experiences that were really meaningful, but also I kind of formed this narrative around, okay, here’s my interest in words and analyzing words and, you know, this matters.

And I had these experiences specifically, like I told specific stories. Um, for example, I think there’s one I talked about, um, child abuse. Um, and, and this caller who had called in who, um, Um, had parents who were regretful and abusive and talk about other essays as well. So some of my other essays, I talked about my interest in thinking about, um, I was a cognitive science major with a focus linguistics, right?

So we come back to that word stuff again. And then I talked a little bit about my interest in linguistics from a developmental perspective. So how does abuse and neglect impact our language? How does that impact the ways in which, you know, we grow up and sort of develop? into adults. And now I’m the other flip side of things.

This is like actually a lot of the kids I work with. This is kind of like my area of expertise moving forward. And so I know a lot more about it. But back then I was just, I was just beginning over the little sapling kind of figuring out that I was interested in this, um, and thinking about that from a neuro perspective, right?

So that way it connected to the cognitive science. I was able to connect to the humanities bit of it by talking about different medical humanities classes, medical literature classes that I was really interested in taking specifically at Brown, or whatever institution I was applying to. Um, talking about, um, I actually did talk about anthropology, like different, like the connection between culture and medicine, because I was already interested in that kind of back then.

And just having that all come together to kind of form this, like you kind of did it like a, uh, Like a blob of a shape of who I am, right? Like you can see like kind of the things I’m interested in. I might not be fully formed. That’s okay. They don’t expect a high school to know everything about they want, what they want to do.

I didn’t even know the word anthropology in high school. Um, but you kind of like, you can kind of see the beginnings, the sparks of my where my intellectual curiosity lies and colleges look at that and they’re like, Oh, I see who this person is. I see that they have clear interests. I see how they’ve, yeah.

Um, going out into their community and benefit their community and also explored those interests and how they furthered that passion in high school and where can they continue that in college? And I think I painted for them a very clear picture of that. And, um. That’s probably what helped me stand out a lot.

Yeah, kind of to echo what Katie said, like the narrative is the most important thing, like the narrative. It’s how you tell the story about yourself, right? Like, for 10 people can have the same extracurricular sports activities, all that stuff, right? The ones that stick out the ones that have the most cohesive narrative.

Um, and so I would just like, highly recommend, like, especially those who are like, early on in high school. Like, Again, like I said before, like, kind of like, do what you’re passionate about, but also be strategic, right? Like, asking yourself, like, okay, if I want to do this and also this, like, how would that help shape my college narrative and thinking about, like, the schools I’d be interested in applying to?

Like, again, for example, if you’re interested in art, theater, history, Yeah, you could probably apply to MIT, but I would really strongly encourage not applying to MIT, right? So that’s an example. Um, I would say kind of similar to what Katie was saying. Like, so I kind of, again, going off of like wanting to study math, but also have an interest in being pre med and going to medical school.

Um, at the time, um, my kind of narrative was like, Oh, like I want to be a physician, but I also want to do research. And I have this interest in having a strong quantitative background to be able to study some of the research questions that I would see. In clinical practice, right? And funny enough, like, that’s kind of a little bit of the narrative I had applying into college, but then definitely applying it to MD PhD programs.

That’s a narrative that I fully fleshed out even more and applying into residency. That’ll be one that I’ll have specifics more of the specifics hammered out. Um, and so. All of this to say is just, like, do what you love, do what you’re passionate about, but also kind of make sure that when you tell a story of, like, why you did certain things in middle school or high school, it makes sense to people.

Um, so thank you both. Um, I think that was really great advice. Um, so a question that we got, um, And I’m blanking out for a second because I have so many questions on my mind. How many good ones are being submitted? Um, a question that we asked, um, now that both of you are in, uh, you know, your MD or MD PhD program, um, have you, you know, based on the, uh, the, the look of the, the rest of your class, um, do you notice that, uh, You know, going to a pretty prestigious school in undergrad, um, is kind of a prerequisite for getting into MD program.

Students are wondering, you know, if you don’t get into a prestigious, you know, Ivy or top 10 school, how does that affect your MD odds as well? Yeah, that’s a that’s very, very good question. And I. Well answer, um, like very bluntly, but let me let me get to it. So Know in the sense that you might like for example ucla amazing school, right?

Like ranked the top 50 for sure. I don’t actually know where it is. I’m not good with numbers Um, but that’s a huge public school and that’s a school where it actually might be really hard to get good grades in your Organic chemistry and your math and your biology classes And so and you might not actually get to know a lot of your professors one on one You Because the classes are mostly taught by T.

A. S. That’s up to say that you see like my cousins go to U. C. L. A. Like it’s a still a great school and also could still be a great school for pre met. That actually might be a harder school to stand out in. Then say some of my classmates who went to liberal arts university. So at Brown, we love liberal arts colleges like it.

A disproportionate amount of my classmates are from Bowdoin and we talk about that all the time. Um, for those of you out there like me from the West Coast, I had never heard of Bowdoin. I did not apply there. I only heard about it once I got to medical school and I was like, why is everyone from this school?

Um, and liberal arts schools are kind of a hidden treasure in my personal heart of hearts. because like the classes are smaller, um, and you might get to know the professor better and get better recommendations and get better advice. These are things definitely to think about. Um, I would also say like, as you’re looking at universities, um, and I also want to preface by saying not all of my classes classmates, and actually a good proportion of them are not from prestigious universities.

However, When you’re thinking about residency, the, the prestige of your medical school, I would, I would say actually matters more for the procedure of a residency than the procedure for undergrad into med school, if that makes sense to everyone. Um, so we have a good number of my classmates who at Brown, at least, um, you might have a different kind of experience, but at Brown, we have a pretty good.

Mix of people who are from universities that I’ve never heard of from all over the country. And there is a clear, um, impetus, like from the medical school perspective to have that kind of geographic diversity and to have like the, like the rural suburban, uh, city, like diversity as well. And students, um, So, yeah, I guess I’ll kind of go with that person.

Yeah, I would say I agree with what he says. I think, again, it’s just about overall picture, right? Something you keep stressing over and over again. And again, like, you, a lot of the people in this call are like 9th and 10th graders, like, we’re talking about things that will apply to you 5 or 6 years from now.

So, like, I don’t want to, like, freak people out or scare people and be like, oh my gosh, like, I need to, like, start studying for the MCAT tomorrow. It’s like, no, take your SATs and worry about college first. I will say though, it’s very interesting now being on the other side of college and medical admissions.

Like, um, so for context, I’m interested in applying into plastic and reconstructive surgery in a couple of years after PhD. And it’s like one of the more competitive specialties. And in talking to a lot of the attendings, like, other than that, the first thing they ask me is like, what’s your name? And they’ll ask, obviously, if I’m at Penn, and they’re also at Penn, they know I go to Penn Med.

The second question they often ask me is like, where I go for undergrad, which I was kind of pretty surprised by, because I’m like, oh, I’m at Penn, like, no big deal. But, um, I would say, like, it’s nice to be able to say, oh, I went to Harvard for undergrad, and then I did a master’s at Cambridge. And I think that kind of also adds weight to, like, thinking about residency, too.

What Katie said, it’s like, if you end up not going to the, like, Your dream like college, like not the end of the world. You can work really hard and go to really good medical school. Um, but I would say, though, some people would say that again, your college where you went to college and also where you went to med school does have a factor into where you go for residency.

So I would say it’s not. The end of the world. Like if you don’t go to like a top college, but I will say it only helps you if you do. Um, so

awesome. Um, thank you both. Um, so we are, we are nearing. We have 4 minutes left. I’m trying to figure out how best. To, um, which questions to ask. Um, and so I think instead of asking a final question, what I am going to ask is, um, both for Matthea and Katie, are there any final thoughts or things you wish you talked about during this presentation that you haven’t had a moment to get to that, you know, final, uh, words of advice to, um, like we said, these primarily sophomores and juniors who are interested in medicine and maybe feeling a little bit overwhelmed by the process.

Um, Any advice or thoughts that you’d like to impart? It’s here. We can bounce off each other. It’s helpful too. But so a couple of the initial thoughts, all of us and a lot of people who are medicine are people who have relatively high anxiety or, you know, we’re very academically focused. Take it one step at a time, right?

Something my med school does. That sometimes frustrates me, but honestly is good for all of our mental health is they only tell me exactly what I need to know, like literally a month before I need to know it. So for example, I. Did not know the process for getting my rotations this year until literally a month before I had to get my rotations because they don’t want you to worry about things super far in advance because they know it’s going to, you know, it’s going to take you, take you out of the brain space that you need to be in.

So for all of you out there, like focus on where you are, whether if it’s a freshman, if you’re a freshman, like focus on finding the extracurriculars that sort of come to you. And that might mean doing a lot of extracurriculars and figuring out what, you know, what you enjoy. And, That’s that’s actually that’s that’s how a freshman year should be.

I think that’s a great way to think about it instead of narrowing your focus. super small. Speaking of narrowing your focus, one of the common mistakes I think I see from like a junior perspective, um, when it comes to essay writing is one, um, your essays are very important. I think we’ve emphasized multiple times that narrative, very, very key.

Um, and also do not make all of your essays about being a pre med. Cannot emphasize enough how many essays I read from students where their personal statement, their supplemental, their second supplemental, like, and that’s why I want to be a doctor. Um, You have this opportunity to show varied dimensions of yourself, and you should absolutely take those dimensions.

Um, take risks on your essays. Like some of your essays are going to be like my personal statement, like a tried and true, talking about an extracurricular, and I talked about, you know, extracurricular, yay. Um, but then I had other essays that were much riskier in terms of formats, where like I, I can’t even remember.

I’m losing a lot of some of the memories, but I wrote one like about a flower shop. I have no connection with gardening, my background, by the way, but it was about education, my passion for education. And, um, that still makes sense because I did volunteering. I, I tutored a lot. I mean, I was in high school.

Um, so kind of like taking risks with some of your essays as well. Um, you don’t want an essay that’s going to board admissions officers to sleep. And that’s one of the mistakes that I see is like someone, Talking about pre med every single essay because then I’m like, I don’t know anything else about this person Yeah, um, I would say one thing that is helpful that i’m glad I did was um making sure that I Was able to talk to people who are always Like one step or two steps ahead of me, right?

So when I was a freshman, I made sure that I was talking to juniors who were about to apply to college. When I was a junior, I was talking to people who just applied to college and now college freshmen, right? So obviously you have your peers that you’re kind of in the same stage as, but I think it’s also important to also like have people that you can kind of go to and ask questions to make sure like, Hey, did you also have this experience going on?

I think that Not only will serve you well in the college admission process, but also graduate school and beyond. Right? Like having mentors that you can kind of ask questions about. Um, and that’s something like a principal. I still live by to this day, right? Like, I’m the middle of my PhD, but I have friends who are just finished PhD back into med school who I can talk to and friends who are applying to residency right now.

So I think also, yeah. Like, enjoy the moment, like, take things one step at a time, but also making sure when it’s the time to ask questions, you have people that you can ask questions to. So fantastic. Well, thank you both for such a wonderful presentation. Um, I know I learn new things every time I get to hear, um, more about BSMD and MD PhD program.

So thank you both. And a special shout out to my fellow moderator. Lydia Hollon has been answering a lot of questions in the chat. Um, our sincere apologies if we didn’t get to answer. the question that you submitted. Like I mentioned, we had a lot of folks in the room and thus a lot of questions came in.

So again, if you want some more of that one on one specific time, I highly recommend you scan the QR code on the screen and get connected with our admissions team for a 60 minute strategy session. Um, we’ll be able to help support you better and, um, really get into the nitty gritty of how to help you make stand out in your college admissions process.

Um, so that is the end of our webinar tonight. Um, we had a really wonderful time talking to you all about BSMD and MD PhD programs. Um, thank you, Katie. Thank you, Mattia. Thank you, Lydia. Um, we do have some upcoming webinars coming up that I think, um, based on some of the questions that were asked, would be really beneficial for you all.

Um, next week we have exploring extracurricular activities and their impact on college admissions, cracking the college essay, tips for a stellar personal statement. So if you’re interested in registering for one of our webinars, you can do that at app.collegeadvisor.com/webinars. Again, that’s app.collegeadvisor.com/webinars. All right, well that’s the end of tonight’s webinar. Thank you all for everything and have a great rest of your night. Bye everyone!